LDS Baptism: Get ’em while young!

lds_baptismThe LDS Baptism has to be one of the best arguments for Joseph Smith being a true prophet of God, but it seems the Church has overlooked this ever so ingenious of rituals.

Allow me to explain:
One of the biggest claims by apologists for the validity of the Book of Mormon is that one Joseph Smith could not possibly have written such a complicated and descriptive narrative, full of details and intricate language, at the young age of 25 without divine assistance.
But Mormon history (the real history… not the stuff the Church pieced together over the years) clearly shows that it was not only possible, but a person of Smith’s character was actually required to pull off such an immoral stunt.

However, when ol’ Joe claimed he received a revelation that all children “shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old,” he hit one out of the ball park, in my opinion.
According to Smith’s revelation, we are all born innocent and children younger than 8 years of age cannot be held accountable for their sins since they do not possess the ability to discern right from wrong.

Children turning 8 are then, allegedly, given the choice to be baptized into the LDS Church and continue their spiritual journey as an official member.

At this age, children are also beginning to develop an understanding of their own self, analyzing relationships in terms of acceptance and seeking to gain confidence in all areas of their lives.
Peer pressure and parental expectations play a large role in this child’s search for their place in society and their own importance.

In most cases, the LDS baptism is viewed by these youngsters (both boys and girls) in the same light little girls dream of one day getting married.
The child is primed from a young age to look forward to the day they will officially be accepted into the fold, albeit under the deception of it being a choice they must make.

The appearance of free will, in this case, could not be further from the truth: for most LDS children, their baptism day comes as a highly expected and anticipated event in their lives; it is a bragging right, so to speak. A rite of passage which comes wrapped in gifts and flattery. It will be viewed by their younger peer as an achievement for which one cannot wait their own, and by their elders as a responsible and mature decision.

On the other hand, a child who is not much older than 8 may begin to see past the glimmering lights of childhood fantasy and instead be compelled to rebel against the establishment (a.k.a. the teens).

So 8 is indeed the perfect age. Whether Smith realized this or not, he created the perfect precedence for LDS baptisms. If he really gave the matter this much thought and research, he’s not all bad in my book, but chances are he stuck his head inside his… hat… and pulled out the first number that came to his mind.
Either way, LDS baptisms are unique in their significance and the lack of recognition of other Christian faith’s baptisms. Mormons don’t believe in original sin, so LDS baptisms play a big role in giving the person a new identity in the Church… a fresh start.

Now, I’ll leave you all with a question (especially those of you who have children):

If you love your children… truly love your children… and you fully believe in the Gospel and doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, then you must believe that your young, non-baptized, children are pure and innocent and free from sin.

As a loving parent myself, I know I would sacrifice anything for the sake of my own children, even my own life.
So I ask: why not kill your children before they reach the age of accountability?
Of course you would be doomed for eternity to never see them again (apparently), but would you not guarantee them their eternal glory, yea, even their exaltation?

(the above question is meant as a rhetorical question and is in no way a suggestion on how to save your children’s souls. I do not believe in souls or the afterlife, so the above has really no affect whatsoever in any eternal afterlife experience fantasy)

32 comments to LDS Baptism: Get ’em while young!

  • evilution13b

    Good read up but you lost me at “So I ask: why not kill your children before they reach the age of accountability?” I’m sure there is more to this in the LDS belief structure then I understand but WTF?

    As far as kids and how impressionable they are, it’s pretty much a given if they are brainwashed (as I like to say) repeatedly – especially by their peers – they are going to believe, think and do what they have been told. Regarding the peer pressure aspect most teens and adults succumb to this daily. So to think a child is going to know the difference and truly understand the choice they are making is a joke. I’m not saying the family and child is not celebrating something they truly believe is special, just stating that this isn’t a “choice” but an opportunity for a child to make their parents proud.

    On a personal note I’m totally disgusted with how my daughter was being brainwashed to the point she believed I was a bad person because I didn’t believe god existed. This is not acceptable at all as I’m a great farther and care what my daughter thinks of me. This train of thought isn’t rooted in only the LDS church but pretty much any established religion.

    So what about your kids, will they be deciding at age 8 or 18?

  • admin

    Welcome back, evilution13b!

    The point I’m trying to make is a simple rational conclusion based on Smith’s revelation on children not being held accountable for their actions prior to the age of 8.
    It’s a question that I think most Mormons either overlook or ignore, among many other logical ones.
    It underlines, to me, the superficiality and theatrics of the LDS believer. In general, members just don’t (want to) deal directly with Church doctrine or their personal beliefs.

    Your story about your daughter thinking ill of you because you don’t believe in God, sadly, is not the first one I’ve heard.
    I think the perception of harmony in the home is one of the main reasons a lot of members don’t speak out openly about their disbelief.
    But I commend you for speaking out. I dare say I will never sacrifice intellectual honesty (especially with my children) for complacency.

    My wife and I have not discussed baptism extensively, yet. My son just turned 6, so we have a couple more years until he may even come to understand it is available to him (although I imagine he’s being spoon-fed some of it already in Primary every other weekend).
    I guess we’ll take it as it comes. He’s very inquisitive and naturally skeptic (as most children are at this age), so there will be lots of Q&A going on around that time.

    Cheers.

  • Jezzy

    I’ve always thought Mormon baptism was way too early. At least the Jews wait until a pivotal decision-making age. I was really excited for my baptism. And I’ve never known an 8-year-old to turn one down. It’s barely even the child’s decision, and I definitely agree it’s more a coming-of-age ritual that comes way before it should.

    And anyone under 8 can’t tell right from wrong? Seems like an excuse. I think that their “conscience”, so to speak, starts to develop far before 8 years old, and doesn’t finish at 8, either. I think I heard that in men, the personality that sort of chooses morals isn’t fully developed until their mid 30s. And it’s true that people develop more or less quickly than others, right?

  • I’ve often wondered similar things. If young children below the age of reason according to any given faith (7 for Catholics) are free of sin and have a get-outta-hell-free card, why do parents, churches, and their gods all allow kids to grow older and be at risk of eternal suffering? Also, some Christians believe that people in faraway countries who have never heard the Gospel are also freed from the “must believe” tenants of the Bible – in which case, isn’t missionary work pure evil? People who might otherwise escape on a claim of ignorance are now stuck with a choice of believing something ludicrous or going to hell!

  • […] hands and voracious hearts – that’s good parenting! Living with Mormons looks at the perfect age to make a major spiritual decision. Most mocking of all is the insidious leakage of religion into law, as vjack explains.Mind you, […]

  • missy

    I am sorry you feel that way. So, you are saying “why baptize children when they are innocent?” They don’t need it right??? So, why did christ get baptized?? He obviously didn’t need to be. Just something to think about.

  • Valerie

    If you truly would like an answer to that question, it is because Latter-Day Saints believe that we all “chose” to come to this earth to go through life experiences to grow and develope “eternal character”, (my term, not Joseph Smith’s)if you will. We see life as a growing and learning time, as well as a testing time, so why would we take away our children’s opportunity to grow and learn, not to mention committing such a gevious sin that we would pretty much insure that our own life was a waste of effort and a total failure? Learning to “choose the right” is what it’s supposed to be about, not choosing the wrong.

  • Bryan

    We (Mormons) also believe in the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which occurs after the prerequisite of baptism. Baptism is the gate to the path of Eternal Life; it sets us on the beginning of the path. Baptism doesn’t save us, but staying on the path after baptism does. The Gift of the Holy Ghost is another ordinance that follows baptism in which the newly baptized person receives the promise of an extra endowment of the Lord’s Spirit (or Holy Ghost) and His blessings to follow (the fruit of the Spirit): personal revelation (more than just inspiration) and many other fruits of the Spirit like joy, peace, happiness, long-suffering, patience, spiritual refinement, sanctification, purification. If you imagine our walk on the path of Eternal Life as occurring in a dark room, then the Gift of the Holy Ghost is like receiving a flashlight that usually just lights a few steps ahead of us, and every once in a while illuminates the scenery to the side or way ahead, or even beyond the end of the mortal path. Who wouldn’t want to give that to their children when eight years old?

  • Mom of One Confused 8 year old

    My little girl is being pulled in the direction of baptism by her grandmother who promises her more friends and other lies.
    Being 8 and very socially aware, she tells me she doesn’t want to be friends with the very kids, saying they are rude and not allowed to play at our house (the evil non-mormon neighbor).
    I am confident that she is learning standard American values of honesty, hard work, charity and humility within our family setting. I don’t appreciate grandma’s use of threats of what might happen if she’s not baptized. “She’ll end up…..” usually begins the threats.
    Being a career educator/administrator I can promise that mormon and non-mormon children suffer social ills the same. Given the additional pressures to present a facad, I believe the non-member children have a more supportive primary group at home.

    Dear Grandma,
    You forced religion upon your five children. How many of them are dedicated mormons? Zero. How many have divorced? Two.

    Please allow me to parent in a different way. “She’ll end up….
    Tolerant
    Kind
    Compassionate
    Service minded
    Free thinking….
    ….Just like her mother :)”

    I do not discourage religion. I am however leaving the choice to her. After all, isn’t that why 8 is the “age of accountability”?

  • Gingee

    I have often heard (being raised LDS) that “we” are baptized at 8 to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost at such a young age, which will help us “Choose the Right” in all of our adolescent years. I believe that God is with ALL of his children – not just members of the LDS faith who have the “gift” of the holy ghost with them. I believe that God will help all who need him. Why do we think we need to baptise so early? They are little children without sin. Why not wait until they are older and can actually benefit from their sins being washed away and being made clean? Let us not forget another HUGE clause to this – the becomming a member of the LDS church before they have ANY idea what they are choosing.

  • Snarf

    While I see that this subject is almost a year old, I would like to add my two cents…
    Unfortunately, most people’s view and judgments of Mormons and their practices come from watching what I call “traditional Mormons”. This concept is not new to the world. The Jews of Christ’s time had the scriptures, but lived what they thought was right, but was merely a shadow of what the truth was. Catholics for generations, have lived various traditional versions of what they thought was truth. Any LDS person who does not teach their child the truth, and allow them free choice, working to curb the brainwashing of traditionalists and society, is not living the religion they profess to believe in. and many of the options and thoughts expressed above, about the seemingly hypocritical Mormons they encounter, are because to few Mormons live the religion as it should be lived. Yes, i do believe that if a child should die(even if it is by the hands of their parents(very bad idea)) before the age of accountability, would be saved through Christ’s sacrifice.

  • Virtuous teen

    I still remember my baptism day. It’s definately something you can choose to have done. You aren’t a baby at age 8… You’re old enough to choose for yourself and make personal decisions. Killing your child before age 8 would be totally mocking God’s awesome plan. Jesus suffered for our sins on the cross so we can repent and make it back to Heaven. I am only 13 but I freaking know this is all true. It’s your choice if you wanna believe it or not though.

  • Niels

    It is a choice. That’s the point. What kind of parent would you be if you didn’t help your children make good choices? Peer pressure will influence their choices enough already. Why not give them a jumpstart in a good direction? If you are not going to advise your children for the good, and leave all their decisions up to themselves, then what the hell are you doing as a parent? The ‘cool’ kids at school will surely help them in decision making. Are you going to raise your kids, or let society raise them? Any church can help you raise your kids. Once or twice a week would be good to go to church and learn about Christ, but most teachings of Christ should be learned in the home by the example of loving parents. Not every child is privilidged to have a good home, so churches can help more in those situations.

    From what I have read about the LDS religion, it is a good church. They help out any disaster with money, hygene kits, food, medical help, etc. all from funds donated by members of the church. They teach good Christian values. They are some of the nicest people I have met. They’re kids are generally well behaved, but remember they are still kids. Nobody’s perfect. That’s why we have baptism. We mess up. And if you mess up after baptism, according to the LDS doctrine you can take the sacrament to renew your baptismal covenent. If the religion is not for you, move on. Let them worship how they want, and dont be angry because it is not how you worship. From one of their Articles of Faith: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

  • Cuello

    Baptism is with out doubt the best choice I have made in my life! I used to be of a different faith, but after looking way into the LDS religion, and PRAYING sincerly about the truth. I got my answer by the wonderful power of the Holy Ghost. All the things I read about, learned, and felt all made sense to me. I could also see how the adversary works. After making the choice of being baptized I recieved MANY calls and emails that was full with anti-mormon “facts”. Most of the people who fed me this stuff did not even attend church. It really hit me to see how satan was trying to keep me from my baptism. I know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is led by Jesus Christ who is the savior of all of us. I have felt his spirit and his love. Most of the anti-mormon stuff I have come across is either not true or put into words that make it sound so bad. I was 18 years old when I was baptized, I really do wish I had the chance to be baptized at 8 years old. A year after I was baptized I MADE the choice of serving a 2 year mission. It was truly the best 2 years of my life. I got to teach people about Jesus Christ, and help them gain a strong testimony. I had the opportunity to do service for everyone! I am so blessed to have the LDS Church, and I hope people can stop gossiping about beliefs and find out on your own. Go to mormon.org and request missionaries, I promise all your questions will be answered. Gosh, I hear so much bad stuff talked about the church, and it testifies to me how satan is working to “try” and destroy Jesus Christ’s church. If you want to know about the mormon religion…ASK A MORMON!

  • […] “give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man,” but perhaps ol’ Joe Smith was indeed onto something with making them wait for it until they’re eight, as Living With Mormons argues.  He ends […]

  • Annie

    Lol you guys are acting like 8 year olds are little retards! They are not and they defiantly know wrong from right. 18 years is way to old to give them the choice, because they have already had it for years!!
    I find it very funny that you used this picture of the baby in water, you don’t see that as a type of brainwash. They use that in marketing, showing a outrageous picture to make people react in either a positive or negative way… and you my friend picked the perfect one to jump start the negativity you feel about the church. Maybe you should not be questioning what we do, but question yourself.

  • Brenda Wainohu

    Hi I’m from NZ and I have to say that Baptism at the age of 8 has been the most inspired thing I know, I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latterday saints and was baptized at the age of 9, everything about my baptism was beautiful and to this day, there is no other place that I would rather be and putting the things in order to prepare to meet God. My Husband is a convert to the Church and was baptized at the age of 21 and his only regret in life was that he wished he had of known about the Church before he turned the age of 8, this Church is true and if it wasnt than all the saving ordinances put into place for you and I wouldnt be true, so if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God!!!
    B Wainohu

  • Brenda Wainohu

    I just want to correct the error above I was baptized at the age of 8.

  • Adam

    When I hear comments such as the one heading these postings, I reflect on the subjective nature of a human being and, after reading the proceeding comments, the freedom of choice. I can tell you that I knew right from wrong long before age 8 because I was fortunate enough to have parents who took the time to explain to me the feelings I was experiencing when I made choices of either nature (one of my parents is not even LDS). I couldn’t have been more than 5 years old before I understood the concept of obedience. When I was baptized, I knew that I was making a list of promises and I knew that God had a list of blessings and consequences in store for me. Some of my friends, however, were not as fortunate to have dedicated, patient parents–parents who gave me of their time and their personal pursuits to understand the most important things in life. For whatever reason they complained for many years until one day they softened up to see the reality of the blessings and consequences of their actions. It was only then that they agreed that 8 could be an acceptable age IF parents and teachers make a concerted enough effort from the beginning. The commandment, as per LDS doctrine (D&C 68), is to diligently and lovingly prepare the child, as did my parents; my non-LDS father made sure that I knew what I was doing, even if he didn’t agree with the particulars of my faith. This is because the choice to follow Christ is clear and simple when the child receives proper guidance and choice development skills.
    Additionally, I do not feel that having a proper vantage point on the consequences of my choices and given the chance to develop my character were brainwashing in least degree. They simply stand on hill and illuminate to me that which is not obvious; they want to see me well on the way to a happy life because they love me. Observe that every normal tween knows what a child does not, every normal teen knows what a tween does not, and every normal young adult knows what a teen does not, and so on. They share their views in hopes that those farther behind will avoid the pitfalls.
    Yes, we learn and grow to make educated choices, but principles are the first thing we must learn because education has too many facets. Could everyone really make a choice of baptism if education were the prerequisite? How could you quantify an amount of education sufficient when the sea of knowledge never ceases to expand? Baptism is an ordinance based on principles which even, yes, a well-parented 8-year old can understand.
    Forgive me if my words are not concise enough, but I feel I must make the matter as clear as glass—when the commandment to teach and instruct the child is diligently executed (D&C 68:25-27) then the child WILL have the evaluation, experience, and knowledge necessary to decide if following the commandments (living basic Christian principles) is worth their time.
    Now, not every child has the fortune of having ideal parents who exemplify that kind of diligent parenting—to those who feel that they were cheated I am truly sorry that the love and sanctity of the matter has been robbed from you. I cherish the legacy that my Christian parents left for me. Furthermore, I cannot plead enough, most apologetically, for outsiders of our doctrine to understand the complexity of human frailty. The parents aren’t perfect; mine certainly weren’t; I certainly won’t be. It takes genuine discipline—genuine time and concerted effort to really see the flower come into full bloom. We look to Christ: Christ had disciples; the disciples gained discipline. He taught them to teach the members such discipline. That discipline must carry through, every member down to every learning child. That sacred instruction between faithful parents and willing child fosters the room for requisite growth to exist. Nevertheless, we must almost leave room open for people to change their minds, to forgo the positive consequences, and to forsake what they have been taught. Pain of parenting causes such deep anguish, deeper than most people have ever experienced (especially when they make such a long-suffering, arduous effort only to fall to pieces as the child seeks and feeds on a rebellious attitude) such that their coping mechanism may be to prod the child harder, or to cause the child undue pressure. The parents are still learning—and we must forgive them as Christ forgives them—but that is no reason to revoke the doctrine of baptism and the doctrines of free agency, for God has established them out of love for all His children. They are true and only true adherence to them leaves the child, no matter which lifestyle they elect, feeling loved and respected.
    That’s all we can altruistically hope for.
    That’s Mormon life.

  • mckayla

    if you really think what you then thats sad. I’m sorry you cant let yourself see the true happiness an LDS life can give you. you will live in sorrow most of your life, but I’m happy to say i will never have to go through that :) i love my life and i love that i am LDS!

  • admin

    Thanks, but no thanks for your condescending pity, Mckayla. How arrogant of you, typical of the piteous, to assume I will “live in sorrow” most of my life.
    While I don’t feel inclined to feel sorry for you (the ignorant sometimes shows they are willingly ignorant), I will indulge you some understanding. Life, happiness, love, charity, kindness, friendship, etc, are not proprieties of the Mormon Inc. or of any other religious organization. They are a product of us, human beings. Religion has merely hijacked and distorted them to mean something else. Something you should adhere to out of fear and guilt.

    Well, I choose to live my life outside of those bonds, and I’m finally able to be genuinely happy, love my wife and kids, sustain rich friendships, and contribute to society without any expectation of retribution. Unlike you.

    Cheers.

  • Celine D'Espions

    I don’t think I have anything original to add, but wanted to thank ALL the posters for their insights. This is an issue I have been concerned about since I have children, and have been teaching this age group in Primary (I am LDS). It bothers me that so many children see baptism as a common step, like moving up a grade in school, and not as the commitment it is. I try to stress what the children are promising whenever it comes up in a lesson, but feel the children are not quite mentally able to grasp the gravity.
    Some children are more mature than others, just as some adults are. Some adults are stuck in an “ideal” phase of perception their entire lives and fail to see, understand, or (gasp) empathize with those who step outside blind acceptance, and look around them with legitimate questions. Anyway…
    I think eight years old is a reasonable beginning age, but that it ought not to be THE defining age for all children. Perhaps it could be common to have them talk to the bishop then but not expect every eight year old to get baptized right then?

  • Erin

    in response to admin, may 2nd at 8:18am.

    Isn’t it odd when you hear of how many celebrities go in and out of rehab and go to jail for breaking various laws? Isn’t it more odd how you can see all these news adds and maybe chuckle to yourself, like I sometimes do, “There’s another celebrity that’s lost it. Geeze Lohan, get your business together woman!”

    Granted, there are many more celebrities that don’t do these things, but the point I’m trying to make is, there are too many cases of false happiness in this world. Why is money equated with happiness? This points to the well debated question. Why is religion equated with limitation?

    In high school, I’m often sneered at for following what is called The Word Of Wisdom, not to drink, do drugs, or drink caffeine, but also to abstain from sex before marriage. I mean, to me these are all perfectly logical guidelines to follow in order to obtain eternal everlasting happiness. Think about the benefits from not drinking, smoking or drinking coffee. These things are very addictive and cost a lot for you and your family and also, think about how awful it would be to contract an STD, or become a parent before you were mentally or financially ready! A lot of the time we equate happiness with instantaneous gratification that often lead to negative consequences.

    I’m not saying that if you are not in a church then you are obviously sinning and having a terrible life, because, you may not believe it and I don’t want to force you to, but you are indeed a child of our Heavenly Father, and anything of true worth and happiness is of Him which he will bless you with wether you are LDS or not. These blessings of happiness are all that you said, Life, love charity, kindness, and friendship!

    I am deeply hurt when you say that religion has robbed happiness from the world with guilt and fear. Heavenly Father is like any other parent, He wants me to be happy and as tedious as His commandments are, I follow them because I know they are right. For example I clean my room out of fear of losing the computer! Of course I feel guilty when I’m being punished for a dirty room by not being able to have the computer, but even more, there is a benefit to cleaning my room even though no child sees this, they grow to be clean adults who like to have a clean house! I would be sad if I could not live with Him eternally or not be worthy to enter the temple if I broke a commandment because I didn’t see it’s worth to me.

    So if you have got nothing from my rambling, I beg you to simply stop judging what seems strange. Please stop hatin’ on the LDS faith, it really makes me feel crummy and that makes me open the fridge.

  • travis

    i would like to comment on three of the comments if i may. this is a first i have ever visited a page such as this and was sort of displeased by some comments that were there and hope to explain something that others and LDS member(which i am a active member and a soldier) dont always understand WITH OUT OFFENDING ANYONE. *Note these are my personal beliefs and not those of the military, LDS faith, or other LDS members.*
    to the FIRST comment of this …what ever you call it: i was that child when i was younger. my father left all religion behind and divorced my mother just before i was born and left my mom when i was a freshman in high school…. that left me very angry abd hateful of alot of things. religion was one of them…. the one thing i learned the most during that time was to be accepting of everyone… weither you believe darwn, big bang(probably the same thing) or god’s hand in all things we are interconnected in some way or another….family i guess you could say. we should accept that religion is not going to be for everyone and let them live their life the way they want to. i didnt spend 2 years of my life saying “believe in christ, mormomism, god, etc or go to hell!!” because that is wrong. i didnt hate the buhddist i met on the street because they didnt want to believe in god. i loved them for their difference, their verity that they give to life. thats the love of chirst that i follow.

    to the confused mother: i am sorry for the situation you are in…i sure somewhere in her grandmothers heart she wants her to be happy. however the failing of the children are not always the failings of the parents. my parents failed. yet from their examples i learned what to do and not to do. For your daughter not being allowed to visit “friends” homes is….. a disrepectful of those parents. christ taught us to love not for similarites but for our differences. my father taught me to love people for their differences. in high school i hung out with the druggies, gang bangers, skaters, emo, etc. i learned from them the more i hung out with them. now i kept my standards and my friends excepted that. hangout with them consisted of me not having to say anything… they did it for me… “oh stocks a mormom he doesnt drink” oh stock dont come to this party there is not gonna be good stuff there…. acceptence is a path that everyone seeks but few find. in all religions faiths and ideals! and i do agree everyone no matter who, what, or when is no different in trials and hardships.
    which brings me to my last one: Mckayla….who do you think you are? what right do you think you have to condem anyone? your statement was dripping with a sense of arrogant pride that makes me sick. as a member you need to get off your freaking high horse and reevaluate your self… try humility!!! you are no different then me or anyone on this page. some of us are happy some of use are sad… that IS LIFE!!!! to gain experiece and to learn and grow. now how can we feel if we do not know the other. happiness and saddness. trust me i have felt my LOAD of saddness…. are you telling me that i am not a good member because of that? let me see where the prophets have said that and ill be sure to eat that. i too love being a member, it has brought me nothing but happiness but life has thrown me alot of curve balls and i may have gotten hit in places i dont care to suggest…which definately knocked me down…..so what!! everyone has that. everyone experiences life and deals with it weither they are LDS or not. i have had good friends both LDS and not. i served in korea on my mission…talk about difficult but i meet people who were better then me and they opened my eyes and humbled me extremely. im not trying to rag on you but look at what you said and think on it.
    administrator: i thank you for your post it was enlightening. i wish to apologize if i have offened anyone. i only wish to explain why sometime we LDS people get a little “excited” about our church. im sure as you know alot about our church. we have a message and we want to share it. me…i share if you want to know. but this message has given me hope peace and many things you can find anywhere if you look hard enough. if you wish to know ill share if not…you are free to make your own choice i do not condem you or your comments. i fight for this country to be free. thats why it was created i the first place and ill go to hell first before i let that change. may what ever power or entity you believe in guide you and protect you.
    travis

  • Cynthia

    It’s been a good discussion I can tell with some good questions, and good answers. I can’t remember all of them that I wanted to comment on but I thought it would be nice to put a few thoughts.

    I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints, and my son is about to be baptized. (I really liked Adam’s comment from April 19th 2011.) The promises that we make at baptism are this: 1. Take upon us the name of Christ 2. Always remember Him and 3. Keep His commandments. It’s not that hard for a child to see that being nice and not hitting etc are part of His commandments and that it is good to be good, and try to be kind and Serve and Love. Kind of like Pre-School rules that we can learn to follow so we all don’t end up in tears by the end of the class.

    Heavenly Father gives us commandments for our happiness. He has a lot of experience at knowing what choices will make us happy and which once will not.
    This is a promise to try to do good, and it takes a lifetime to work at, and Heavenly Father is loving and patient and merciful with all of us. (meaning every person on earth) And He has big rewards for us and He has a lot to teach us. It doesn’t hurt to get started young and develop good habits that lead to happiness.

    For the question that someone brought up about waiting until we are older to wipe the slate clean through baptism… Well it is easier to learn to get rid of bad habits while we are young before they are rooted in, or to never start them at all, and on the plus side there is the Sacrament! We get to go to church every week and take the sacrament and renew the promises we made at baptism and thus be cleansed and purified, and have the slate wiped clean, if we are truly repentant and wanting to be good.

    I love it all! I love Heavenly Father’s plan of Happiness, and I know that it is true! I have prayed to find out for myself, even years after my own baptism at age 8, and I have lived the principles and I know them to be good and of God.

    Cheers :)

  • David

    I was baptized and became a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when I was eight years old. I remember my bishop carefully interviewing me to make sure I was ready and willing to make and honor the sacred baptismal covenants (or promises between me and my Heavenly Father). I remember my baptism fondly and often think back upon it and the beautiful symbolism of the baptismal ceremony. Of course, since then, I have had many opportunities to reject the the faith of my fathers. Nevertheless, I have not! At the ripe old age of 35 I continue to strive to honor the promises I made when I was a little boy. The blessings and joy I receive through my membership in Christ’s church are immense. Don’t let the turkeys who write this blog get you down. Like the president of our church said, when faced with life’s challenges, “it is better to look up.” http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/it-is-better-to-look-up?lang=eng&query=better+look+up

  • admin

    Thanks for your testimony, David.
    I love looking up, too. But when I look up, I see our universe and marvel at its grandeur and beauty. Then I realize how insignificant we are in our infinitesimally small history and how ignorant we still are that we still hang on to ancient, outdated and baseless beliefs in gods and magic. Sorry, but the evidence is on my side, turkey.

  • Tanya

    I find it interesting that some of you are critizing the Mormon faith for baptizing at the ‘tender age of 8’ and mock it for being ‘too young’. Well I think that is interesting since most Catholics are ‘baptized’ while being an infant and having a few drops of water sprinkled on their foreheads! I would think by the age of 8, the parents have had time to teach them the doctrines of the gospel. But when you are an infant? Really? That just seems incorrect. There is no choice in that!!! And no teaching before performing an important ordinance that Jesus Christ himself taught while here on the earth! Btw, Jesus never taught that we should be baptized as an infant and with a few sprinkles of water. If you guys really want something to critize maybe you should shift your focus on the Catholic church. Just sayin:) Something to think about.

  • RyAwes0me .Inc

    Why all the hating I mean this is a religion, in a free country, you don’t here them complain about you or your religion.
    know ask your self why do u dislike them and there religion so much.

  • Tabitha

    Someone who doesn’t even believe in God has no business discussing wether or not they believe in baptism. I do not say this to be rude or mean or disrespectful. I say this only to point out that religion…any religion is based partially on faith and if you have none then you should not be having these theological coversations about the baptism and Christ. Why? How could you believe in baptism when you don’t believe in God in the first place? That is like saying you do not like chocolate when you have never tried it. Or saying that you dislike a book that you have never read. Or saying you do not believe in meditation for stress relief because you think its fanciful or illusory. I think that for those who believe and have their own testimony of their religeous faith this is hard to explain to a nonbeliever or some on who doesn’t believe in a higher power.

  • Mormons will bullshit you with the Idea that the chucrh stopped poligomy. The real reason was the state of Utah couldn’t be admitted to the union until poligomy was abolished. The money and other benefits of statehood were the reason the chucrh leaders had those revelations . All came down to the mormons greed. Having alot of morons in our area(including my brother and his family) I regularly see these hypocrits and clannish asshole. Most morons wont have a thing to do with you until they want something then theyre you best friend. After they get what they want out of your pocket they’ll ignore and shun you till they need again. -4Was this answer helpful?

  • Phillip

    I am a mormon and i know that it may seem weird that we dont make the decision to get babtized, but that aint true. before we are babtized we are asked if it is what we want in a very serios conversation. and plus, we already know the gospel by the time we are eight, unlike those cathlioc infant who are beeived to go to hell if they die before babtism. No innocent child should go to hell. Oh just so you know, i am only 13 yrs old. I could say alot more, but i beleive others before me have already proven my point. P.S. Admin,when i see our universe and marvel at its grandeur and beauty, i think of god, and wat God did. P.S.S you are outdated P.S.S.S We dont beleive in magic, heck, ive have enough experiences with god myself to know that he works with science.P.S.S.S.S u turducken!

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